Camoin Tarot Forum

[Kim]

First of all, please inform me in case I am not understandable... English is not my every day language, Tks !

I am living in the Alps and the shape of the mountains in the Tarot has always intrigued me. They are round, no peaks at all and like surnatural.
Two weeks ago, I was in Egpyt, Mount Sinaï, and there I was just totally shocked and amazed. My entire body had goosepumbs as an idea came right to my brain: they are the mountains depicted in Tarot !

When I first met Philippe, about 7 years ago, he did not like the fact that some authors associated Tarot with Thot's book and Egypt**. He said that theses ideas were only a fashion at a time French people discovered Egypt (1800'). Now, returning home, I am really glad to read that in his next book he will explain more deeply the links between Egypt and Tarot. For me, it is obvious and I really look forward in order to dive into his book !

** I understand what Philippe ment and I am almost certain that Philippe's facts are not the same as those of the people that time, more that a century ago.

Enjoy the discoveries of Tarot and have a really nice week end

[Paul]

Welcome to the quiet, but contemplative, English forum, Kim:

You are perfectly understandable.

Indeed, the French were gaga over anything Egyptian, then. But, that's so easy to do; the Egyptians were religiously glamorous!

I find that the Tarot is not so much connected with Egypt, singularly, but more so that the Egyptian story is a seminal motif for the story of the Soul. This story subsumes and transcends any specific mythology and reverberates through time. But, that's from my scholarship, thus far. I look forward to P. Camoin's enrichment and eloquence and clarity.

[Kim]

Quiet and contemplativ, yes it is

Are living in UK or USA ? If in UK, I wonder if british people would like to receive Philippe teachings ? If I ask this is because it seems that most american and british are very attached to the Raider Waite .

It could be maybe a good opportunity for you to organise Camoin session in UK or USA

Do not forget to be happy

Kim

[Paul]

Hi Kim:

Happiness comes and goes, but contentment is permanent.

Yes, I live in the USA. You remark on a subject for which I am passionate.

Some Marseilles Tarot decks are now in the stores here in the USA, but as you said Americans and Brits are attached (for now) to the Rider-Waite and Thoth decks. But, I have always maintained that it's not "their" fault. I say "their" in regards to my American brethren, because I broke from that Tarot pack many, many moons ago when I was a teenager, and I chose to read with the Marseille Tarot; indeed, I copied my own TdM from a library book when I first decided to read Tarot. There was an authenticity there that was palpable and undeniable. But, I was a highly curious young man, and the only decks and books available at a bookstore were the RWS and Crowley (mostly, RWS), and there was no Internet. So, I felt very isolated and stuck and deeply dissatisfied with those decks. Not even the Swiss 1JJ was readily available in my part of America. I remember reading at the Renaissance Faires and everyone had the RWS or a pretty clone. I was rather tactless then-- with the naïve audacity that comes with youth-- and I remarked to a few that their decks were anachronistic, I said that at least my (hand drawn) deck fit with the Time. Of course, once again, they were consuming what was available, plain and simple.

Back to the story on attachment...Arthur Edward Waite (an American-born Brit, or a British-born American, I can't remember which at this moment) made his Tarot with Pamela Coleman Smith the artist, and that deck became the prototype for all subsequent clones in the West. Then, all English books wrote to the deck, so to speak. Stuart Kaplan of the company US Games Inc. published by far most of the Tarots at that time. He was interestingly enough, inspired in the beginning by the Swiss 1JJ deck, which has many more Marseille qualities to it, than RWS.
Swiss 1JJ-Kaplan's inspiration

Moreover, Kaplan has written encyclopedic tomes on the Tarot with wonderful illustratations of a wide array of TdM's and has quite a collection. Notwithstanding, the US Games Company really only published decks that were clones of the RWS or Crowley. So, this becomes a snake eating its own tail: As they only wanted to publish decks that the public knew and would conceivably sell, ironically they had the primary part in controlling what the Tarot public saw, and so they perpetuated the stranglehold. The meanings of the RWS/Crowley Minors, especially, were based on the Golden Dawn system and the astrological decans (as the Golden Dawen interpreted the decans). So, at least for the US Games decks and books, the publisher wanted only decks and books that perpetuated the RWS/Crowley meanings. You can perhaps see how this forces a brand to become ubiquitous. Since then, the Italian company Lo Scarabeo has branched out to TdM's, but still tends to publish a dizzying array of RWS/Crowley clones.

This is now changing, as the Marseille decks are being published by companies again and penetrating the market here in the US. But, still, there are very few English-language books on how to read with the Marseille more than it being presented as a "primitive" version of the RWS or Crowley decks. Due to the cartoon imagery on the RWS Minor Arcana, Americans/Brits are more attached to their Minor Arcana, so this becomes an obstacle when dealing with pips. As you know, in Europe, the Major Arcana plays, well...a more major role in the reading. Today, there are English-speaking Tarot forums that are discussing the Marseille deck and how to interpret it, using historical analysis, number symbolism, and other ideas, as well as analyzing Jodorowsky's work-- and the Internet, itself, has brought much to the light of day.

Well, I've rambled enough . My basic point is that I believe that there is plenty of interest in the Marseille here. Like any "movement" it starts with a passionate coterie of dedicated folks.

Best,