Camoin Tarot Forum

[Paul]

Here's is a real question, with permission from the querent for analysis:

The querent is a medical doctor in training (called a "medical resident" in the USA). This resident has experienced tremendous abuses of the department and the director, which may result in the ending of his career before it has started. He is grieving the problems via a long, written Magnum Opus letter, which is presently in progress. Heretofore, he has never been so bold in his rebuttal to the department "demigods" who have been abusing him, but this is the Last Stand. He is going above and beyond the department to "higher" people because the department has abused him in isolation to this point.

His question is, "What will be the result of the grievance process?" The hope is to salvage either the residency or get another one.
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If I use the Optional Laws, then I will follow the handle of La Roue and see what turns the wheel; this then opens up new information.
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[Lux Ferre]

Hello Paul, nice to see you back for the first post on this forum

Present :

XI inverted :

- lack of confidence
- anger
- lack of control over emotions

X in solution of XI :

- put logic over emotions
- stay focused on the goal
- end of a period
- fate is on his side


Future :

XX :

- good news
- promotion
- superior authority coming to bring dead people (your friend in his work / his carreer) to life

Future looks bright !


About the options :

III :

- good analysis of the project (grievance) is needed (with logic as mentionned in X)

IV inverted :

- bad boss
- difficulty to finalize a project

VIIII :

- looks like the order of the doctors would be putting into light this bad manager / boss

VIII in solution of IV inverted :

- bad boss put back in the right way through some justice (probably the order of doctors)


Extremities law:

- A good communication (XVIIII) is brought back (XX).
- X and VIIII --> a step back would be seen in this situation


Interesting to see that X and XX are endings of the two cycles of 10. To me, this could mean that the querent will be ending this grieving situation.

I hope this will help

[Paul]

This helped immensely, Dorian.

The next spread asks of this same situation:

"Should I obtain a lawyer at this point to use in my formulation of a response to the committee?"

The background on this is that typically lawyers too early in the game piss off the committees and they lock down. The grievance process at this point is all according to administrative protocols within the hospital. The hospital says, we will bring our lawyer if you bring your lawyers. The doctor feels that the lawyer is essentially overkill at this point and possibly counterproductive. The very fact of trying to solve this internally can be comforting to organizations. If they are willing to "deal" later, the doctor would obtain legal representation to make sure he is not missing something. In the past, the doctor did consult a lawyer, briefly, who is ready to respond when necessary, but told the doctor to chill out and not karate chop this.


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I think that Le Pape is the administrative processing of the hospital and Le Diable is indicating telling the truth, but asserting oneself, rather than using a lawyer. VI-Lamoureaux's middle figure becomes pronounced vertically in Le Diable (Law of Columns); as well, Le Diable is the truth teller.

[skip]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for bringing this learning opportunity to the forum.

Of course, I find myself wanting to be in the room and asking the resident questions to get a fuller picture; speaking with the querent allows the reader to fill in the gaps. Without being able to do this, I feel less confident declaring anything, but here is what I see:

First, I see "formulation of a response to the committee" in the three cards starting from the present position:


if Le Mat were upright as just above, it would seem to clearly express putting together a (written) response (II) and delivering it (0) to the committee (VI). I am also inclined to see the Tarot as saying in the two cards to the left that the resident sees the problem (XVIIII) clearly (VII); in which case the first line reads that the response can be successfully prepared and brought to the committee, but there is a problem with him taking it there. He may be afraid because what he is doing looks foolish, perhaps even seems like he is throwing his career away.

By the way, the past cards end in Justice, so both cards at the extremes are about making a choice/decision. I would definitely ask him first, what are you thinking you should do? It it likely that the choice he is already leaning towards is the right one.

I agree with you that the Pope is a perfect card to represent the Hospital hierarchy. However, I would not usually read the Devil as truth telling; for a few minutes, I was tempted to see the Pope as the good lawyer, duking it out with the lawyer for the untruthful folks (XV).

But going back to your background, I think that the language you actually used may hold the answer:

As a solution to Le Mat, you have hospital protocols (V) and airing of grievances (XV), so it seems that the answer for now is to follow the protocols.

That's my tentative interpretation.

best,

Skip

[Paul]

Hi Skip:

Lovely!

As the drama unfolds, the resident appealed the Grievance to a power higher in the hierarchy, the Dean, thus bypassing the first level committee. This is because members on that committee are all from his department, whom the resident has the grievance against!
So, evidently, there was a personal decision just recently to not deliver much but a brief letter to the first-level committee, letting them know that a higher grievance process was instituted, and then follow the grievance process through with higher ups.

After the Grievance officer/person gets the grievance document (and it's a doozy), those committee members who are named in it will certainly have some talking to do.

Does Le Pape have a book?

I see this reflected in Le Mat (reversed) as did you-- a problem taking the report to the committee. When this question was asked, the "committee" was I believe the first level folks.

I see the Dean in Le Pape. The people that the resident has a problem with (3 very powerful people), I see reflected now in Le Diable. Perhaps this reflects a change from a larger committee meeting (VI) with people who are largely equal in rank, vertically to a more intimate meeting (XV) with one person higher in rank than everyone who is principally responsible for the decision. In any case, with Le Diable upright, perhaps we can conclude that the final evaluation will go well.

Paul

[iñigo]

Dear Paul:
First of all, hi!, nice to hear from you. Im Inigo, one of the moderators of the forum.
My interpretation of both readings is:
It is evident that the resident has a large conflict with the administration of the hospital, clinic or whatever. This conflict is based on his lack of control of personality. don´t misundertand me, he doesn´t have a personality problem, BUT his personality doesn´t match with the mainstream of the hospital. We are similar in that our personalities tend to clash with hierarchical structure (Im talking about my phd thesis!). THis is reflected in the card of The wheel of fortune in the first reading u did.
The dean is controlling the people (see the Le Diable card), probably because he has his own intererests at heart. I mean, If he wants to continue working there,he will have to accept the hierarchy as it is, unfortunatelly for him. Indeed his future looks good with everyone involved. Now, decide if his career merits a personal sacrifice of navigating the hierarchy according to their rules.
No to the lawyer idea, because in the end the dean will confront the resident with a positive result (u can see this positive end in both readings). In the second one u can see that involving a lawyer creates a unnecesary confrontation at the beginning of the process (that the resident could win, see VIII). U can that is not necessary because the followin cards are in a positive sense, I mean upright.
When u get what ur rival wants, who wins?
good luck.

[Paul]

Hi Paul,

However, I would not usually read the Devil as truth telling; Skip

Hi Skip,

Yeah, I'm not sure where I got this meaning for Le Diable -- he is the Scientist and tells the truth no matter the consequences. While Le Pape is convention, Le Diable will tell you that you have a booger in your nose, but at least someone said something, right?

More seriously, though, Le Pape will say that the World is Flat because it is the right thing to do according to context; Le Diable will say, Hey! The World is Round! because it's the Truth, even if it offends. Of course, these are upright meanings, only.

One more metaphor: Le Pape follows the careful protocols of a Tea Ceremony; Le Diable slurps his tea and asks for cream and sugar, because it tastes good.

Paul

[Paul]

Dear Paul:
First of all, hi!, nice to hear from you. Im Inigo, one of the moderators of the forum.

Hello! Thanks for your interpretation-- it was spot on.

It is evident that the resident has a large conflict with the administration of the hospital, clinic or whatever. This conflict is based on his lack of control of personality. don´t misundertand me, he doesn´t have a personality problem, BUT his personality doesn´t match with the mainstream of the hospital. We are similar in that our personalities tend to clash with hierarchical structure (Im talking about my phd thesis!). THis is reflected in the card of The wheel of fortune in the first reading u did.

Spot on. Can you tell me more where you got the "personality" misfit theme? La Force, perhaps?

The dean is controlling the people (see the Le Diable card), probably because he has his own intererests at heart.

So, Le Diable is suggesting that the doctor must accept the hierarchy, right?

In the second one u can see that involving a lawyer creates a unnecesary confrontation at the beginning of the process

Can you expand on how you saw this? Thanks!

Wonderful interpretation. Thanks for your input in our humble little English speaking subforum.

[iñigo]

DEar Paul:
I would like to answer ur questions one by one:

1º The problem with the personality is reflected by La force, as u said. As The Wheel corrects La force, we are talking about the social system that operates in the hospital. I mean, the structure corrects a personality misfit, as u said.
2º The relation between Le pape and le Diable means two things: The resident must acept the hierarchy and probably, that Le Pape is gonna acept the person, to correct LE MAT upside down. Le mat is moving away from the meeting (card VI) and moving toward Le papise. Le papise is learning how to come out ahead in the conflict. But, le diable is resolving the problem, over the number 6!. What does it mean? That means that le mat is gonna acept the propousal of Le pape. I don´t know if this is good or bad. It announces something like a contract for the resident, or a sort of agreement.

3º About the unnecesary confrontation: the two blocks confrontation.

As u said in somewhere, to have on ur side could be a good a idea. Moreover when the lawyer knows that they are gonna win in case of problems... (u can see that in the top with the La justice card). BUT
At the beginning, the past, and in the future there are different blocks, the first one started in the Le soleil, and the second one will start in LE MAT, both cards upside down.
What could it mean?
Two different choices:
First block, with lawyer, finishing according to the law in a positive way for the resident. BUT the problem is represented by Le soleil. I mean, this card has a friendly connotation. I mean, The apparition of the law doesn´t match with the nature of the problem within the mind of the hierarchy. The hierarchy probably believes that they can resolve the problems without outside intervention. ( this befenits them, of course, boh)
SEcond, This idea of relaxing the problem matches with the other block. The pape is gonna say ok, "we´ll acept him/her". BUT again this is the hierarchy´s opinion.
Now the resident could take advantage of this hierarchy´s opinions or he/she couldn´t. I don´t know if the resident likes the idea of being considered as someone who has someting to learn (learn how to behave as a subordinate).
In short, honestly, I don´t know if it would be good for the personality of the resident. But the choice is his/hers.
But Why do they have to argue if the sollution is arriving? (Le pape watching le diable).
Goood luck

[Paul]

Just some updates from the doctor.

He was in fact terminated from the residency in a wrongful termination move; however, he is appealing. The dialogues about "what happened" and all of the offenses are becoming quite candid, and it is turning into quite a thorough exposé (XV?) going high up in the organization. At this time "the gloves are off". The doctor feels that he will win.

I'll keep the updates coming, so that we can check interpretations.

[Paul]

Updates:

The doctor appealed his termination and the committee did not support the doctor. The feeling of the doctor was that the decision was political rather than borne from justice. In this particular State of the USA, there are laws that allow employers to fire their employees for any reason. At all costs, employers tend to stand by their termination decisions, whether they are deserved or not. I think in France employees have many more rights! Not sure about Spain.

However, an investigation into the doctor's whistleblowing is being conducted. This was the event that escalated the doctor's termination. An investigator is actively investigating the whistleblowing of the doctor and looking also for any retaliation evidence. (In English/America-speak) "whistleblowing" refers to when someone in a company comes forward and reports wrongdoing. In this doctor's case, he whistleblew on another physician for a serious matter that effected public health, which is when the Witch Hunt began. There are whistleblowing protection laws that protect the whistleblower, either by giving the whistleblower a big reward or his or her job back, or both.

So, it is possible that Le Jugement (XX) in the above readings, as well as XV Le Diable refer more correctly to this whistleblowing investigation, which may prove to be the more cogent (or persuasive) argument for the doctor to either get his job back or at least get a financial settlement. This would make the Tarot's answer tremendously more longterm than first anticipated. But, the Tarot seems to answer more than we ask, but just what we need to know.

[Paul]

The doctor informs me there are intriguing disturbances in the Force.
(I love Star Wars metaphors.)

There are blips on the radar from inside birds, that there is activity at the University. These blips may indicate that a new phase of political resolution will begin.

I'll keep everyone posted, balanced with discretion.

Paul

[Paul]

Updates for all:

The doctor is fundamentally out of work and has found a law firm to take his case on contingency basis.
The way the wind is blowing appears to be that the doctor will not ever be brought back.
The law firm reports good confidence that financial remuneration will come, but it will take years.

I know that the Tarot method is not always clear on "time". It could be that the prior interpretations will bear fruit in time.

Paul

[skip]

Hi Paul,

In response to your comment that the Camoin method is not always clear about issues of timing, you are of course correct, especially when there are many factors including the free will of the querent involved. One good way, however, to coax more clarity out of the Tarot is to do further readings on the same topic, altering the wording of the question each time.

Doing this can not only bring more clarity about timing issues, but also themes tend to repeat themselves, confirming that the Tarot is indeed speaking to the querent.

In the case of your original spread, without the optional extension, the solution and future cards both point to a shift in direction and what could be an unexpected outcome. (La Roue de Fortune: twist of fate, Le Jugement: an end and a new beginning.) For me at this point in my Tarot education, I would probably suggest another immediate spread to clarify, because although X and XX upright are generally quite positive in atmosphere, being ends of a cycle they are notably vague about what might come next, or what sort of "ending" they refer to.

Back when you first posted, this didn't occur to me; in the meantime, though, I have had a number of clients come back to me for (and personal situations where I benefited from) further readings on the same topic with different emphases, especially using wording such as "will the issue .... resolve itself by xxxx date?"

much appreciation to you for posting developments on this querent's issue. It benefits all of us to study outcomes as they unfold.

Skip