Forum Camoin du Tarot

[Paul]

La Papesse, she has many significations. She is the Roman goddess Luna (Greek, Selene); later, she was supplanted by Roman Diana and Greek Artemis. Within post-Renaissance art, Selene is generally represeted as a beautiful female with a pale visage. Diana was a goddess of fertility (the penis), but also an emblem of chastity: Controlled fertility, the egg? She is the Queen of the Witches, the witches are symbols of the wise sages, nature, magic, and the common people. She is associated with the hunt. I think that her hunting dogs are in XVIII-La Lune. She is often depicted enveloped in shrouds. All of her titles are now conflated.

Who or what are our modern goddesses of Luna, Selene, Diana, Artemis? How shall we interpret this card in a modern context?

Your opinion?

[iñigo]

Hi all:

In my opinion, La Papesse is learning, She is not a wise woman yet. She is white. Her soul is empty. "Come to me empty" as in some traditions it is said. Following the Camoin´s order, She is looking at the wand of the Bateleur. La Papesse wants to know which magic energy moves the world. So Which is this magic energy in our global world? communication?

I need more time to think about, but all of us are a bit "La Papesse" when we use google.....

What do you think about?

regards!
Inigo.

[Paul]

In my opinion, La Papesse is learning, She is not a wise woman yet. Inigo.

Hello iñigo:

Why is wisdom the climax of learning? To me, such is knowledge, more along the lines of Le Pape, her solar counterpart.

But, I do wax philosophical here.

More later. (Added later): I think the question for some regarding this card has been whether La Papesse is teaching from her book or accumulating knowledge; or, both at the same time. Or, does she veil knowledge, but offers a "version" of it in the book? So, when the student is ready, the teacher arrives, but until then, only what the student can fathom.

To me, depending on the context of the question, she can represent instinctual knowledge, the Wise Mind that comes from the senses apart from the eyes and ears. She was likened to nature religion earlier per her associations with Luna/Selene etc. This intimates that she studies natural law; she knows the thump and pulse and flow and tragedy and comedy and triumph of the Savannah of Life. IMO rather than wondering about the magic of Le Bateleur's wand, she knows what that magic is, she Trumps Le Bateleur. She understands when a storm is coming by sensing the windflow and the scent in the air; Le Pape tunes into the weather report. She appears to know nothing, but knows more deeply. Thus, she may signify in a reading, waiting for the inner voice, waiting for the accumulation of the Dew of Intuition, which will be evident in the morning.

Or, she's reading her morning newspaper and cooking an egg.

Paul

[iñigo]

Why is wisdom the climax of learning? To me, such is knowledge, more along the lines of Le Pape, her solar counterpart.

Hi Paul:

Well, because the intelligence doesn´t belong to the soul, for example.

Two things that matter:

1º Why the tiara of La papesse scapes from the square?
2º The glance: in case La Papesse be self taught, we don´t have to be worry about what She is looking at. ¿? So why don´t draw her with her eyes closed?



La papesse is learning from OTHERS. Her book is the book of her life. La pepesse is learning from other how can she scape from the material world.

So maybe we could say Le papesse is doing a deep learning....but by the way...La papesse can indicate a "regular everyday life learning"

When I find La Papesse in a reading, first thing that means, in my opinion: "the person has to learn something" that means that previously, he/she didn´t know about...


Let me know

bye bye bye bye bye

[Paul]

Why is wisdom the climax of learning? To me, such is knowledge, more along the lines of Le Pape, her solar counterpart.

Hi Paul:

Well, because the intelligence doesn´t belong to the soul, for example.

Two things that matter:

1º Why the tiara of La papesse scapes from the square?
2º The glance: in case La Papesse be self taught, we don´t have to be worry about what She is looking at. ¿? So why don´t draw her with her eyes closed?

I think we are saying mostly the same thing, but appearing not to. I think she is learned, but in a different way than the Pope. As I said before, she learns from the natural law, living, breathing, sweating, breeding, dying. But, I think she looks and says, "Behold that."

La papesse is learning from OTHERS. Her book is the book of her life. La pepesse is learning from other how can she scape from the material world.

I see this as a Taoist concept (and Buddhist, for that matter) of living in the world but not being of it. Her crown transcends (or escapes) the border of the card. She is the Gyspy Mother that a pre-married couple consults for the practical advice. In a different way, the Pope provides the couple liturgical advice, IMO.

So maybe we could say Le papesse is doing a deep learning....but by the way...La papesse can indicate a "regular everyday life learning"

When I find La Papesse in a reading, first thing that means, in my opinion: "the person has to learn something" that means that previously, he/she didn´t know about...

Yes, but in my opinion, this learning is intuitive, observational, watching nature as the guide, not out of a book. But, I think we say the same thing.
But, even if we do not, "“A conversation is a dialogue, not a monologue" (Truman Capote)

And in this wold, dialogues are scarce. I appreciate our dialogues on this forum.

Paul

[Paul]

...More practical interpretations may be, if you would indulge my braindump...

-Psychotherapy
-Alternative therapies (as opposed to the conventional SPAM SPAM SPAM of Le Pape or L'Hermite).
-Intuition
-Study of...(whereupon she regards), but perhaps not in an intellectual sense.
-Magic
-A wo(man) of inscrutable personality
-A wo(man) guarded
-Caution/Watchfulness (as conflated with Diana the huntress)
-Pregnancy or fertility (the egg under the layers [fabric] of the uterine wall)

The best known myth about Selene (goddess of the Full Moon) tells how she fell in love with the beautiful youth Endymion, a shepherd. As a shepherd, he was likely an astronomer.


I see Endymion in Le Mat, ...
...thus Le Mat looks skyward, he has a shepherd's staff, and a little dog. Selene discovered him asleep in a cave and fell in love with his beauty. Selene made him eternally asleep (I think via Zeus' superpowers) yet had him sleep with his eyes open. This is such an apt metaphor for the incarnation of the soul into a body (sleep), urging us to look skyward with awakened eyes (eyes open). Oh! The layers of meaning here! But, I digress.

To switch gears, or more accurately switch layers on this one cake, I see La Papesse as Isis, to put an Egyptian-esque aestheteic upon her. Moreover; I have always seen Le Mat as Osiris.


So, this would aptly match Osiris with Isis, and thus match Le Mat with La Papesse as a type of perfect couple. I am speculating here, only. But, what an interesting combination-platter in a reading would be Le Mat + La Papesse. Think of how this combination could fit with the context of a particular question.

To say more on that, Isis reassembled Osiris, that's the Federal Express version. In this mythology, Isis was the Divine consort of Osiris. Set (I think this is Le Diable), plotted against Osiris. Isis was cautious as a rule (La Papesse ~ in a reading: Caution, watchfulness). After Set dismembered Osiris (perhaps XIII?), Isis was distraught, cut off her hair and put on mourning clothes (La Papesse). She then engaged in a clever and intricate plot to revive Osiris (La Papesse ~ in a reading: cleverness, a more gestational plan, intricate, subtle). Ultimately, she revives Osiris.

And, on an esoteric level, (mind racing now) there is a sense here to me that La Papesse is the first impulse or first glimpse of the soul, that there is something behind the mundane affairs of Le Bateleur. The human senses inner divinity, but it is veiled still, but reassembly is required.

Well, I need to stop here before I tongue-twist on my own manic babbling.

It has long been said that the myths are the same story across cultures; the same narrative, different costumes; somewhat like when Hollywood gets inspired by an idea, and then repeats it ad nauseum. The Tarot no doubt reflects these perennial themes.

[TarotClarity]

I think of her knowledge as hidden knowledge, such as secrets. Not necessarily the wisdom of the ages, but certainly the kind of information that would blow one's mind if they knew it.

[tarotists]

The moon represents a card with negative meaning